this post is to further discuss massing of house one using ashley’s 31houses work as a springboard.
here we are looking at a return to he interlocking masses pierced by the piles, which have been shaved to be more discreet.
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i dont know man. i was thinking about your drawing this morning and trying figure out how it could reconcile with mine. do you think the spaces shown in mine could be the free floating pile mounted volumes that are then surrounded by a sort of hider-cage (poche)?
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i thought you were calling for us to revisit the masses+shafts. i believe the hider spaces were spots that appeared amongst the loose-fitting blocks, and the piles were the means for traveling between them (for the hider). i’m convinced that each pile could be a legitimately inhabited tower, and the interlocking framework that supports them could house the hider, if that is what you are saying.
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ok, never mind. i read ‘spaces shown in mine could be the free floating pile mounted volumes’ as ‘spaces shown in mine could be the free floating piles’
the spaces shown in your could be supported or adjacent to the piles, but i don’t know what legitimate purpose they would have if the spaces are also contained by a solid that the hider inhabits.
perhaps the people live in spaces that are carved from this poche, as does the hider. the ‘piles’ are circulation paths that are drilled through the poche to connect the rooms, whilst avoiding the hider spaces. didn’t we say something like that months ago?
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i was just re-reading house one – plan, and it seems that the design is complete?
should we move on to house two?
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ugh, i just had to type pindyck as the anti-spam word.
finished?! i dont feel like it is finished!
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ok, in the previous comment, we are looking at a view of the inhabited spaces (white) being pierced by the piles (yellow). the envelope that would surround all of this is not shown. the space between the forms shown here and the would-be envelope would be the hider-poche. also, some of the vast spaces that would be contained be the envelope could also be added to the ‘legitimate’ spaces.
the spaces represented are taken from the plans in ‘house-one plan‘
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no, he dwells in the spaces between the white/yellow volumes and the currently invisible bldg envelope.
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those are the pilings; they ostensibly support the inhabited volumes and serve for circulation, but the ulterior motive is to provide extra crannies for the hider. i suppose some of them can be used by him as well? surely he can move from the hidden space to the family’s space from time to time, like when they are at vons, sleeping, or watching netflix.
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so they could be a netherworld, the shared space of the hider and the mortons, the portals between their worlds?
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also, i’m fucking around w/ the site a little bit tonight, so always ‘copy’ your comment before you hit ‘post’, in case there is an error.
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yes, either ‘he’ could come out and invade their cavities when they are absent, perhaps needing to escape at some point, as you diagrammed previously w/ your twisting staircases w/ the hider running ahead, just around the corner – or each pile could have a double-shell/helix – configuration, where he moves along his space in sync w/ the mortons’ daughter.
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also, i’m fucking around w/ the site a little bit tonight, so always ‘copy’ your comment before you hit ‘post’, in case there is an error.
check out the sidebar on the individual posts; there should be links to the most recently active (commented) posts, so you don’t have to go back to the front page and scroll down when switching between two posts you’ve recently been posting on.
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the site improvement. i like the double shell of the piles too. i wish we were film-makers, that would be the best way to illustrate this house.
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feel free to put together an animation.
i know how to make animated gifs now.
wow.
you don’t like? are the masses hollowed out in the model? if not maybe i can contribute some thoughts in that arena? is there any way you could output the plan of that as a dwg?
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i would like to just press a key and have the solids become ‘empty’, without having to put another shape inside them and ‘subtract’ them. i’ll look into it tomorrow – or you can tell me now. today is over for me!
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hollowing out the solids doesnt seem to recognize:
double-shell/helix – configuration, where he moves along his space in sync w/ the mortons’ daughter
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they are not ‘windows’! they are just openings to demonstrate to you that those forms are hollow; also, any form w/o a ‘window’ would be a pile.
in the cad dwgs, the plan on the left is the ’2nd floor’, which i guess had bedrooms and an office? the middle plan is the ’1st floor’, with the kitchen and lr at the ‘top’ of the drawing. in the center of both was a double height main space. the plan on the right is just the piles; i don’t think you need it?
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also, the piles are yellow; the family spaces are red. the hider spaces would be around and between those. i think w/ that screen, or something similar, the family would be unable to notice the forms of the exterior not adhering to the interior spaces, unless, of course, they looked.
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it seems like the hider spaces would also be solid though, thereby confusing the picture from outside. i dont see the hider spaces as being the exterior space between the screen and the currently drawn volumes necessarily.
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ugh, i had a ‘busy’ day; can we change this from ‘hider’ to ‘landlord is a belligerent creep and lives below you in the house’.
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there have been enough eerie coincidences that we have become suspicious – and i thought ballgag was bad.
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it seems like the hider spaces would also be solid though, thereby confusing the picture from outside. i dont see the hider spaces as being the exterior space between the screen and the currently drawn volumes necessarily.
i agree, i didn’t mean that anything between the screen and the inhabited volumes would be hider’s.
rather, his would be clamped onto the volumes, like the brown shit here:
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thanks! what am i doing wrong?!
the point of these sections is for you and i to sketch over. these are at 1/16″.
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i don’t think it is your fault; i think there is some conflict w/ our image links that pop up over this window vs. links that go to new page in this same window. ‘it’ seems to pick one or the other based on who is posting them.
what do you want me to sketch?
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yeah, it doesnt seem to happen from my office.
i thought you might be able to convey your thoughts about the angled surfaces in those double-height spaces or what the exterior or roof should do?
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i would probably have to do it longhand, but im sure you can communicate your thoughts in gimp.
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i am going to assemble some 3d views to sketch over here. the first is just to recall and reveal even more how excellent this site is! house one is located where the spanish colonial tear-down is. hail dark downey, hail sadistic intent!
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some floaters in the enormous living room volume can serve as hider living quarters.
bedrooms, etc, have skylights serving similar purpose as your balistraria.
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i really like the skylight, i was thinking of how i could employ something like that. what are the floaters, big solid boxes hanging in space?
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the floaters are boxes, cubes or maybe canted a bit, but they are hollow, i tried to indicate that that 3 storey volume in the LR is glazed; the excuse for the cubes is to provide screens for sun and privacy, or just a ‘feature’. imagine they are suspended and do not meet the wall (or each other?).
something like a series of (folding planes) may achieve the same effect.
i see the skylight as a cousin of the floater; they are floaters that penetrate the ceiling in chambers; from the exterior ground level they appear sensible to those who know about the skylights.
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i wonder if the floaters might be able to be like the skylight you have drawn but rotated so the hider is hanging down into the space, or could appear to be some sort of structural element bracing between the two lobes of the triple height space. the latter might be preferable (or in combination with the skylights) so that he can get access back to the wall network. if it is floating there would he have to jump across or something?
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rotated how? yes they don’t need to be floating; i just see them as some volume that are out of reach of the family, who don’t presume to need access to them. they may be more of a retreat for hider, possibly with outdoor access, if they protrude like skylight
if it is floating there would he have to jump across or something?
i didn’t get that far yet; i figured it would be through line of sight trickery.
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rotated how?
i just meant inverted. the bulky ‘shaft’ of the skylight could hang into the room rather than the thin bladelike part. i dont know about a glass roof. that seems pretty frivolous?
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i just meant inverted. the bulky ’shaft’ of the skylight could hang into the room rather than the thin bladelike part.
uuhhhrrrr, can you sketch that?
a glass roof. that seems pretty frivolous?
ok
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i see; the blade is that little foot thing i had sticking down in the chambres. i made it thinner than the exterior box so no one would wonder about the thickness. i guess the glazing can be offset inside the protruding frame, but i can;t think in plan and section like you can
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i thought maybe if we have a boxy thing or two in the main space that this ceiling element might seem as if it were part of the ‘vocabulary’ of the building and not so suspicious?
i can’t think in plan and section like you can
ok, yuko!
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i dont think so? I never pictured this house being a box.
i think a good portion of the exterior wall should slope (at the osha prescribed angle for a ladder) like a very deep mansard roof.
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is there a particular angle that you used for the interior passages. i don’t know what the best angle outside 30-60-90 is; i guess osha can pick a good one?
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In the case of job-made wooden ladders, that angle should equal about 1/8 the working length. This minimizes the strain of the load on ladder joints that may not be as strong as on commercially manufactured ladders. osha.gov
this looks like it produces a consistent 83 degree angle.
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Non-self-supporting ladders, which must lean against a wall or other support, are to be positioned at such an angle that the horizontal distance from the top support to the foot of the ladder is about 1/4 the working length of the ladder.
this would create a 76 degree angle.
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ok..i was going to see about putting -your- plans in cad today, with an eye towards working out some sections. does that seem sensible?
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yeah, i figured that would need to happen at some point. feel free to take any liberties you might be possession of.
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my thought is that the building might seem like it was ‘mostly roof.’ i think the roof would be more like a mansard as seen in the previous comment but i think it would reach to various points on the wall and sometimes almost to the ground as above.
not quite like this:
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this isnt the one i had meant to post but this is the one i was thinking of actually. it is in melbourne.
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i actually just did a sketch where the pitch is kind of the opposite of that, it meets the ground on the two ends but comes up with a flat wall in the middle. stand by.
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nice, i have seen that form of church before; is there a particular religion that states buildings have to be all roof? like the red doors on the episcopals’ and the mecca wall in mosques?
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for some reason i was thinking they were usually methodist or lutheran, but it doesnt look like that is the case. i think it might be whichever religion was the shit in the 70s.
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the section and the axon dont necessarily reflect what i was mentioning above. the elevation sketch does. it gives the hider multiple places to access the mansard ladder from the ground.
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i haven’t finished a section yet, but i had the idea that some walls sloped in at the upper level
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you can keep working.
ok, that will give you something to discard, as usual, when you return. are you seeing the da vinci exhibit?
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yeah, i dont think it is possible without a hip in the roof at the peak of the wall, i dont think that would be as cool.
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John Portman: Art & Architecture
oh man it was awful, and i am a fan. they just arent buildings that are worth ‘looking at.’ the best thing was a model of downtown atlanta with all of his buildings tricked out in detail. i asked if i could take a picture but the docent said “no, because he doesn’t want anyone to steal his ideas, or something.” i guess thats why i got hauled into security for taking pictures in the inforum.
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i don’t follow…
ok, i understand. i wonder it the reverse incline might be difficult for the hider to climb?
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the davinci exhibit was, like most other high fare, very patronizing and lacked any sort of complex insight. the high has become a lackey to suburban ‘calendar artist’ (1) fandom. i guess the gwinnetians were probably galvanized by the fact that leonardo is a character in a dan brown novel.
i was going to see a series of photos about survivalists and campers in the deep south and to look at the agnes martin painting again.
(1) artists who people revere because they look good in the stocking stuffer calendars they get every year.
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‘calendar artist’, nice. you should share term that w/ saul cups; he works at a major institution in the north east now, and when they try to show something that isn’t monet or klimt, the publicists chide ‘why is this interesting?. i suggested to scups that musea only want to promote exhibits that will sell postcards and tshirts.
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i wonder it the reverse incline might be difficult for the hider to climb?
that’s for when he is climbing on the inside
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a model of downtown atlanta with all of his buildings tricked out in detail.
was it a downtown atl w/ only his buildings?!
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not to shit on the water lilies show last cycle. those paintings are fantastic.
i was excited about the ‘black line of woods’ photos because it was actually a show mounted BY the high, which almost never happens. it was pretty lackluster and shoved in a gallery smaller than my living room.
obviously ‘musea’ can show decent things. i saw a john currin retrospective at the moca chicago, a ron mueck show at the modern in ft worth, and we saw that cremaster thing in paris.
we have this to look forward to at the high next cycle; although it appears there will be a radcliffe bailey joint starting in february… so it goes (as they say on goodreads).
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was it a downtown atl w/ only his buildings?!
well, it would be pretty much, they had all the stupid buildings he didnt design just as boxes painted beige. as a slight they built msme’s office wrong but they did put the single tree in its yard.
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columbia guest studio critics, here we come!
i know you are slamming me, but it is over my head?
can you make it slower?!
i’m trying, i don’t know how to make it more than 100 frames long…
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i have never made one, so i cant possibly have the space to slam you.
i’m clearly a novice, but i thought that would be easier than capturing a dozen views. i see why pk makes bldgs in 2d.
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this one isnt trying to reach a single roof line at the top but inflects so you dont have 3 surfaces on the roof.
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no! i think it should be an inflected wall like you are making. i am just studying geometric possibilities.
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i think we just rotate 90degrees and elongate along one axis and we have it…
it can go in our fort series
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ok, i went to the big lots on jefferson and got some card paper to fold your roof wall w/ s few ‘roof surfaces’ as possible (less than 3)? the final model required 2 cards.
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shit boy, i saw it, i was in austin for a couple of days…
i like them. what are the little flap pieces that are laying flat?
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that’s what’s left over after you fold; they are descendants of the flap at the bottom of this panel:
http://www.sisyphean.com/work/5houses/possiblegeometry03.jpg/
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no, i figure the interior would be on ground level, crudely represented in the top photo graph in this image:
http://www.sisyphean.com/work/5houses/geos09.jpg
also, when can we take down that tour eiffel pic??
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i see. what might it look like in section?
i dont see it; it is the high plains drifter house on my machine.
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here are some sketches i made by looking at the models; i will see if i can cut sections tomorrow…
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here is a quick study, i think the angles are too shallow, i need to calculate them more precisely. i moved the axes of the folds offcenter on each elevation which is slighly different than yours; i also didnt know how to make the splayed legs at the bottom but this is not because i dont like them.
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didnt know how to make the splayed legs at the bottom
i guess that means you didn’t know how to fit them on the site, not ‘don’t know how to model them’?
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i didn’t understand; surely you know how to model some pyramids? if you think they don’t work, let’s just say they are buried underground.
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this one has a higher roof in the northeast (over chamber 5) and southwest (over chamber 4) corners to accommodate program whereas the last iterations had a flat roof. also here but hard to see are ‘pop-ups’ over the living room and dining room.
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as far as i know, yes, i was thinking maybe the climable envelope passes in front of the courtyard to screen it from the street?
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so the house appears as a continuous volume, even at the courtyard, garden and balcony? if the skin consists of rungs should they cover windows as they do the ctyard?
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i was thinking about the windows while i was at the nutcracker this afternoon and thought that they might could be gables (or their ilk) where they occur in the midst of one of the ladder surfaces.
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dont know if this helps. levels one and two shown in the mass. courtyards not yet excised from model.
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fabulous fox
i see, i thought it was a euphemism for lreed or someone. i saw that ballet at the fox back in 1985 or so, w/ a school group.
pitched roofs?
as long as the pitch is that osha 1/8 or whatever and does not meet at a single point.
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god, there were so many coughing children, it was so disgusting. if i dont have swine flu within the next couple of days i am never going to have it…
how many points do you want?!
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how many points do you want?!
points can be infinite, as long as there are at least 2 roof lines, minimum.
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gable idea, i went looking in scully’s shingle style book for inspiration. they all looked like the one you said no to.
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sure, he can perch there, i guess i was mainly trying to negotiate the forms since i wasnt allowed to use the solution man has employed since the dawn of time.
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man has employed since the dawn of time
let me guess, you cooked tonight’s dinner by rubbing 2 sticks together?!
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i could have, boiled green beans don’t need much in the way of technology…
i am guessing you arent into the solution i proposed. i was thinking that there could be a less boxy gable solution that still used some of the aspects that make normal ones successful.
this is what i was thinking, but maybe it isnt so cool, although i like this better than what i did above, that looked pretty nominal.
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i dont see why not, however a different strategy must be employed for the windows below. i guess they can just be, like, how would you say, regular windows?
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yes, i am guessing the majority of the lower ones will be primarily in the flat surface. no big deal.
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i didn’t think any of it was ‘flat’..
also, there are too many comments on this page; there is a setting to only show certain number of comments per page, but i can’t get it to work…
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14h01m20
14.Dec.2009
[...] ashley doesnt have to exert his scrolling finger, please consider this conversation continued [...]
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15h01m23
25.Apr.2008